Hiển thị các bài đăng có nhãn breaking the silence. Hiển thị tất cả bài đăng
Hiển thị các bài đăng có nhãn breaking the silence. Hiển thị tất cả bài đăng

IDF soldiers refute allegations of Breaking the Silence

From Shai Levy in Mako:

I'm flooded with messages from  IDF soldiers and officers. Not long after "Breaking the Silence" published the testimonies of IDF soldiers who fought in Operation Protective Edge , I was approached by the same soldiers and officers in every way possible: phone, messaging, Whatsapp and even through email. Everyone sent a clear message, "They stuck a knife in our back with a malicious plot", as a tank officer with the rank of lieutenant wrote me. They vehemently deny the evidence disseminated by Breaking the Silence and expose cases that prove their claims, as well as the difficult feelings.

It is important to mention that all interviews in the article were made ​​independently and not through the filter of the army, and not in cooperation with the IDF spokesman.

Lt. Oren (a pseudonym) was a platoon commander in the 7th Brigade during the Gaza war. In one of the testimonies of Breaking the Silence, one argued that, "They just chose [a house] – the tank commander said, “Just pick the farthest one, so it does the most damage.” Revenge of sorts. So we fired at one of the houses. Really you just see a block of houses in front of you, so the distance doesn’t really matter.. "Lt. Oren says he knows the event personally, and even took part in his capacity.

He said, "This is an event about late Levitas (Captain Dimitri Levitas), which is simply not true. I have personally seen his body and we were frazzled. But even then we maintained our military ethics. It is true we did heavy firing, but we fired at the source of fire or suspicious places, all in accordance with the procedure and we followed a very strict identification procedure. Understand what I'm saying: our commander was killed, a friend, and we kept shooting according to appropriate procedures. This nonsense of shooting at the house because we want revenge is just a blatant lie. I can not believe that one of us said anything like that, certainly not someone who was there. "

He said commanders in the field use very precise intelligence information referring to almost any home. They know where the majority of the tunnels are, where there are no civilians is no less important, all shells shot only after a proper procedure they have been practicing for a long time before the operation. "Before and after the operation, we emphasized to the officers and soldiers the importance of accurate shooting, to identify the target of not shoot innocent people. More than that, Lotan brigade commander (Col. Nadav Lotan) still talking about even during every minute of a respite. Even then to the soldiers and commanders, he kept saying, 'Be sure to be careful and accurate so as not to shoot innocent people. "

He also revealed, "I can tell you about the two cases we were able to target what we suspected was a dispatcher, and we desisted for fear of hitting innocent people. One of them turned out to be a dispatcher for sure that hid near civilians."

In a conversation with the then battalion commander, an officer who was then a lieutenant colonel told me that "we had a crazy amount of intelligence. We double checked, and verified the verification," the officer told me. He also said during the waiting time before they would enter the Gaza Strip, "the fighters already studied the importance of accuracy and injury prevention against the innocent." According to him, this is an issue that many officers also emphasized to the soldiers during the fighting.

"Almost all the shooting got my approval and, if not mine then the officer in charge. All of our entrances to areas were made after we announced to them (citizens) with messages from planes, phones and what not. Now give me one example in history, one of the Army in announcing to its enemy where he plans to act and what to do. It is a scene bordering on madness. "

The officer said, "So as not to hurt innocent civilians, we informed them what we're going to do. That's how, by the way, the guys of Hamas could manage their fighting much better. They knew where we worked and where not, and then they could send the their fighters to the right place, you know what I mean?" he asked angrily and assessed that this  conduct cost lives and wounded.

An infantry soldier testified, "In some places they called and told us we should not shoot.They were saying we were permitted to return fire only if we identify the enemy in the eye, and clearly. Conditions were very intense and some of us took it poorly, as if our lives are worth less than the Gazan with AK. But I can say we even understood this. Besides, that's the difference between us and a coward terrorist who fires behind the back of a woman or a child. "

His fury was not really hidden, he added, "then these people come and tell me we fired freely. Bullshit, I bet that they did not speak with a single real fighter in Protective Edge". He also revealed that in one of the skirmishes they did not receive permission to shoot artillery fire, because of the proximity of the source of Hamas's shooting to civilians. He said, "We were under fire and my squad commander ordered artillery support, a conversation I heard with my own ears. Any approval of artillery had to be done twice, ...I remember that under a real source of fire in a specific location. We waited a long time until we have received assistance and it was precise fire from the Air Force. "


Another soldier talked with me as well, a sergeant, reacted to the issue of Hamas lookouts, as mentioned in testimonies of Breaking the Silence, which said the IDF fired there on unarmed women who with phones. [BTS: "They were two young women walking in the orchard. The commander asked to confirm, “What do you see,” and whether they were incriminated or not. It was during daytime, around 11:00 AM, or noon. The lookouts couldn’t see well so the commander sent a drone up to look from above, and the drone implicated them. It saw them with phones, talking, walking. They directed fire there, on those girls, and they were killed. After they were implicated, I had a feeling it was bullshit.]

A paratroop officer told me that Hamas often used women and children to alert their men of where to fired at IDF forces. He says he personally witnessed such a case:"A woman with a child came very close to our position and really you see how she points to our positions . You see how she talks on the phone and after a moment passed, we started taking sniper fire and mortars." He noted you are allowed to shoot such observers but not freely, there are procedures that must be adhered to, and in this case by the time they finished the procedures she was gone.

According to him and other respondents, there were dozens of cases in which women and children were sent with phones to locate the positions of the army, which of course caused terrorist organizations to open fire. It cost the lives of soldiers. "So there were cases where we fired in such circumstances, and it is absolutely legal becaue this is a real threat to life. But there were many cases of doubt where nobody opened fire," said the lieutentant colonel we spoke with.

"I have no problem with people on our side who want to repair the world and be angels",  a paratrooper told us, "but that's not the case. We went to war against a terrorist organization  and specifically those we went to defend, are betraying us. It's really a betrayal. I read the evidence where it seemed like they were describing another war, I was there and that's just not true. What they did is to make our blood worthless, really, and it is unbelievable. "

Oren, an officer in the armored units, said, "We feel this report is very difficult. They made us into war criminals while we, we left to protect them, we were the only ones operating in morality and maintained the purity of arms. This is something that is impressed upon us from the start, not to mention in the command courses, and yet they come against us. I do not believe in protecting these people. I am in favor of investigating properly. I was upset about what was published, some people looted money, it was great that the IDF investigated and stopped them. But to accuse us of systemically acting against civilians, as if we freely fired, it's just a shame and betrayal of Israeli soldiers. "

Another interviewee is Air Force fighter pilot who took part in a Protective edge and Pillar of Defense. He said many attacks were canceled because of proximity to civilians and had difficult personal feelings from the publication of Breaking the Silence. "They claimed that there was active heavy fire as part of the policy. And I ask, what exactly do you expect? That our soldiers would enter into an area that wasn't made safe? And I tell you that this happened in some cases. In the testimonies I read they said fired at houses before entering and turn on heavy fire in neighborhoods, They say it's part of the IDF's destruction policies and I can tell you that it is nonsense. I personally witnessed the military's efforts to evacuate civilians from a place where we attack, I saw a lot of activities that do not reveal how  UAVs are used to confirm that no civilians are there right up to the moment you press the button. "

The pilot indicates that for him, the report of Breaking the Silence "is not intended to fix anything. Apparently it's part of our self-flagellation. They use columns of Gideon Levy, people who were not in war rooms and don't see what we are doing to preserve the purity of weapons. Or they fabricated their evidence, or somebody gave them information from frustration and to take revenge, I do not know. What I do know is that they hurt us, a very deep trauma. I can say that personally these things, these plots are disturbing to me. These things cost us and stay forever, components of a false and cruel blood libel that is part of their DNA.

"Breaking the Silence" responded by saying that nothing in the new testimonies contradicted their claims, and that the case of the shelling of the 7th Brigade in memory of a soldier killed, the claim was examined and it is not the same case referred to by what they published.
The testimony above shows that some of the women and children who are listed as "civilians" killed - even according to the Meir Amit Center - were in fact acting as spotters for terrorists and were legal targets under the laws of armed conflict.

It also shows that, shamefully, the IDF accepts casualties in its own soldiers in order to avoid even the appearance of being too reckless with the lives of its enemies.

That is a real scandal, and one that no NGO would ever get funding to document.

(h/t Yenta)

Real Breaking the Silence 2: Another IDF soldier speaks

(Part 1 here)


Shachar Eilenberg, an IDF soldier who fought in Gaza, wrote down some of his experiences on Facebook in response to the "Breaking the Silence" release of anonymous "testimonies."

Operation Protective Edge - Khirbat Ikhza'a
In the early morning hours we identify two kids walking near a house we were staying in. Four combatants quickly accompany Company Commander Benaya Sarel as they go out to "pick" them, and bring them to us so we can interrogate and ask them what are they doing in an area that has been clear of civilians for the last week and a half, an area where fighting is taking place. After a quick interrogation by the Prisoner Interrogator and Benaya Sarel it becomes clear the kids came here looking for food and have no ties to Hamas. Benaya decides to give them some of our food and release them to their homes.

Operation Protective Edge - Khirbat Ikhza'a, the same house as the incident mentioned above.
We're in it for quite a long time and discover that due to a miscalculation of the amount of food we took, our team of 13 combatants is now left with just one Tuna [can]. In the kitchen of the house there's pasta that can feed the whole team. We explain this to the Company Commander and ask for permission to make the pasta. The reply we got was: "You made a mistake, you didn't take enough food, be strong and survive with what you've got. Eating from the the family's food is looting and we're not an army of looters".
And no, we didn't destroy the house after we left it.

Operation Protective Edge - the outskirts of Rafah.
1.8.14, 08:00, the humanitarian cease fire comes into effect.

Minutes after the the cease fire a biker emerges, we try to stop him, but because of the cease fire we can't - he manages to escape. Afterwards we realize the said biker is a Hamas operative sent to check our force's location and pass intelligence to Hamas.

A short while afterwards Benaya Sarel spots an unarmed "civilian" on the second floor of a nearby building. Again, just like in the first incident, Benaya decides to go "pick" the civilian and find out what's he doing in a combat zone, where for some two weeks and a half there are no civilians in sight.

The Command Squad, comprising of six combatants, goes out to bring the civilian to us for interrogation. When they reach the said civilian a strong explosion is heard and heavy fire is opened up on them. All this of course during the "humanitarian cease fire". From this incident Major Benaya Sarel, Lieutenant Hadar Goldin and First Sergeant Liel Gidoni did not return. Again, I emphasize, this was during a cease fire.

Who ever says our army is immoral and criminal is blind, and if the soldiers of such an army are criminals I'm a proud criminal.
(h/t K., Yoel)

Here's an example of a "Breaking the Silence" testimony

Today, the leftist group Breaking the Silence released a report on how awful the IDF was during the Gaza war.

As usual, the stories have no context and no details, so it is difficult to know what exactly happened.

But I went to the BTS site to see testimonies from Gaza last year. Here was the first one I saw:

There were a few times where it was just too much and I had to say something. Because in two months of fighting, people make mistakes, mistakes happen. It’s our good fortune, and I mean both as a nation and as the IDF, that there are some people who know how to stand up and say, “Hang on, something bad is happening here.” I remember one incident in which there was permissiveness of sort on the part of the upper levels with regard to wanting to open fire, and it was fortunate that somebody stepped up and said something.

What was the story?
Some militant was being monitored, he had been incriminated, and he was on his way to a meeting with other militants, and on his way there he was joined by another person who started walked alongside him, and the moment their paths linked up – despite the fact that it was totally against regulations – the second guy got incriminated too, and nobody knew from where he had popped up. So you couldn’t incriminate him ‘dry.’ And in that case, there were people there who said, “Hang on, this is no good.” And in the end the strike wasn’t carried out, it wasn’t executed. What I’m trying to say is, that sometimes even the commanders up top make mistakes, and I was present during an incident where it was stopped. I can’t know if there were incidents in which it wasn’t stopped, but in my estimation there were cases in which incriminations were made against the regulations.
So someone walking next to a militant was almost accidentally killed and in the end he wasn't because someone spoke up.

Doesn't this show how horrible the IDF is?

Arguably, this shows that the IDF's rules of engagement are too permissive. Depending on the value of the target, according to the laws of armed conflict, the IDF could have killed both of them without the slightest worry about it being a war crime or even immoral.

Akiva Bigman at Mida last year looked at many more testimonies and was equally underwhelmed. Every story he read either didn't show anything very wrong, minor problems or issues that would happen any time you deal with human beings, or at worst, some problematic episodes that don't describe the context of the danger that the soldiers were in at the moment of decision.

I'm seeing other stories that are just as unimportant. But BTS and its sponsors know that most people wouldn't bother reading the stories themselves that often show the morality of the IDF, and will only read the most lurid ones that are cherry-picked for Haaretz.

If any other Western army had a similar initiative to BTS, chances are they would come out much worse.

Yet "Breaking the Silence," as with so many other NGOs, is funded by the EU with the intent to bash Israel and only Israel.

Because you've gotta start somewhere. And, apparently, when Israel is your target, you've gotta end at the same place you start.

(See also NGO-Monitor)

Another BTS post coming up next.

Breaking the Silence cares so much (ElderToons)

From an idea by Renato:


Soldier describes how immoral Hamas is

Looking at more of the "Breaking the Silence" testimonies, here's an example where the leftist group is trying hard to pretend that the IDF is doing something immoral - but in fact it is Hamas that is trying to get the IDF to kill civilians.

There was this mentally handicapped girl in the neighborhood, apparently, and the fact that shots were fired near her feet only made her laugh (earlier in his testimony the soldier described a practice of shooting near people’s feet in order to get them to distance themselves from the forces). She would keep getting closer and it was clear to everyone that she was mentally handicapped, so no one shot at her. No one knew how to deal with this situation. She wandered around the areas of the advance guard company and some other company – I assume she just wanted to return home, I assume she ran away from her parents, I don’t think they would have sent her there. It is possible that she was being taken advantage of – perhaps it was a show, I don’t know. I thought to myself that it was a show, and I admit that I really, really wanted to shoot her in the knees because I was convinced it was one. I was sure she was being sent by Hamas to test our alertness, to test our limits, to figure out how we respond to civilians.
Later they also let loose a flock of sheep on us, seven or ten of whom had bombs tied to their bellies from below.
I don’t know if I was right or wrong, but I was convinced that this girl was a test. Eventually, enough people fired shots near her feet for her to apparently get the message that ‘OK, maybe I shouldn’t be here,’ and she turned and walked away.
The reason this happened is that earlier that day we heard about an old man who went in the direction of a house held by a different force; [the soldiers] didn’t really know what to do so they went up to him. This guy, 70 or 80 years old, turned out to be booby-trapped from head to toe. From that moment on the protocol was very, very clear: shoot toward the feet. And if they don’t go away, shoot to kill.
Here we see that the IDF soldiers held their fire even though there was a very real chance that the girl was booby-trapped, that Hamas had booby trapped sheep, and that Hamas had booby-trapped an old man.

But what is the headline that Breaking the Silence uses for this story?

“I really, really wanted to shoot her in the knees”

This shows quite clearly that BTS is not interested in showing the truth about the IDF, but that they are fishing for dirt to make it look bad.

In other cases the BTS interviewer tried very hard to get the soldier to denounce IDF's rules of engagement:

There were cases in which families were apparently killed by fighter jet strikes. How do you explain that?
A lot of houses were hit, and some of those houses were also shared by occupants aside from [Hamas] militants. I think most of the families that were hurt were in cases like Shuja’iyya, (the testifier is referring to the artillery shot in the aftermath of the event in which seven IDF soldiers were killed when their APC was hit by a rocket) where the threshold for opening fire was more lax because forces were in immediate danger.

But the forces were operating in neighborhoods that were supposed to be uninhabited.
‘Supposed to be’ is one thing, but in reality there were people in there sometimes. In the urban areas of Rafah and Khuza’a, every other house was marked as ‘active’ (being used by militants). It was a real hornet’s nest in there, and they took down those houses systematically. ‘Roof knocking’ (a method by which a small missile is fired on the roof of a building as a warning shot to its residents that it is about to be struck) followed by a boom, ‘roof knocking,’ a boom. Despite the fact that no one was ‘supposed to be’ in there.
Showing that the IDF still tried to warn residents even in areas thatthey shouldn't have been and that they were under active fire from Hamas!
But there are means of confirming that there aren’t any people [in the houses], so how did it happen that they got killed anyway?
We can’t know everything. We did everything we could in order to know. If the family had no phone and a ‘roof knocking’ was conducted, and after a few minutes no one came out, then the assumption was that there was no one there.

You were working under the assumption that once a ‘roof knocking’ was conducted everyone leaves the building immediately, and if nobody leaves it means there was no one inside?
People who are willing to sacrifice themselves, there’s nothing you can do. We have no way of knowing if there were people in there who decided not to get out.

But the bomb was dropped on the house?
Yes.

And say after a ‘roof knocking’ 10 people go up on the roof of the house?
Then you don’t strike the house.

And what if after a ‘roof knocking’ 10 people stay inside the living room?
If people were inside the house I didn’t know about it. But I don’t think that was taken into consideration [over whether or not to bomb the house].

Is it a requirement to make sure no civilians are in a structure before it’s attacked by a fighter jet?
It’s not obligatory. Say the target was [Hamas’] deputy battalion commander in Shuja’iyya, an attack would be launched if the number of civilians wasn’t too high. By too high, I mean a two-digit number.
Everything this soldier says isperfectly legal in the laws of armed conflict. What else could soldiers do to determine if civilians are in the house after leaflets, phone calls and roof-knocking? Should they ring the doorbell and ask politely to speak to the head of the household?

These examples show that Breaking the Silence is not a human rights organization. Its entire purpose is to demonize the IDF, to make it look bad even when it does nothing remotely wrong.

If only real reporters who know something about real wars would read these and write about it.

Real Breaking the Silence 3: Yet another IDF soldier speaks

From Avihai Shorshan, translated on Facebook by Tomer Elias:

I'm also breaking the silence.

Here is my report, nothing special, just the tip of the iceberg.

During our operation in the Kasbah of Schem, while we were stationed inside a house for an ambush, an old man, one of the residents of the home started feeling pains in his chest. Because the Red Sahar are a group of useless golems, against orders we evacuated the old man in the middle of the night on a stretcher while seriously risking the troops in the area, and risking exposing the our ambush location.
**
During our duty in Gaza, the battalion commander decided that all the food supply crates that were sent to the unit for lone soldiers would be distributed to the Palestinian families during our next operation. (We received many more food crates as compared to the amount of lone soldiers in the unit). During one of our operations before Rosh Ha'ashana, we entered the Jabalia area by foot, and the armored vehicle that came in after us brought the crates with all the food supplies. Every home we entered during the operation received a gift for the holiday.
**
During one of our operations in the outskirts of Sajaia (city in Gaza), our location was discovered. Hamas didn't wait long and sent towards us a 10 year old boy with an explosive belt on him.
Against protocol and orders to kill the terrorist, a friend from the crew that was guarding the door at the time, decided not to open fire. He took cover and ordered the boy to strip and take off the explosive belt. We arrested the boy and after an interrogation in Israel he was released safe and sound. (By the way, during the interrogation it turned out that his brother, a senior Hamas member, paid him 10 shekels to go and blow up on us).
**
After preparing for two weeks for an operation that was a little crazy, we left to arrest the Hamas leadership in Janin. We had intelligence that they were all going to meet in the same coffee shop.
After a long walk, and two weeks of combat readiness, the force reached its destination and we were all locked on the target location. But only then the intelligence realized that the coffee shop and the surrounding area were packed with uninvolved people, and the order was given to cancel the operation, and return empty handed in order to avoid harming innocent people.
**
What I wrote here is not rare, and not an outlier, I can write an entire book just from the cases that we personally experienced in our crew.

Every soldier that served in these areas can share many more similar experiences.

I'm not closing my eyes, during combat, especially in an urban environment, innocent Palestinians are hurt. However, I know, with a full heart, that the commanders on the ground, and the higher ups, will go beyond what is necessary in order to minimize the number of casualties. Even when it does happen, it is a mistake and an error, things that unfortunately happen in every way, all around the world.
"Breaking the Silence" is trying to defame and make a controversy, and nothing else. The organization is not willing to work together with the IDF or to share its investigation material, despite the IDF constant pleas that they share the information. Besides all the testimonies are anonymous...

Every person with a head on their shoulders will come to their own conclusion...

Everyone that fought in Judea and Samaria (West Bank), and Gaza knows what really happens on the ground, and what the orders are.